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ANH founder, executive & scientific director, Rob Verkerk PhD, took to the airwaves recently on Australian radio station TNT Radio with Mike Ryan for a fascinating and wide ranging conversation. The conversation flowed freely across a range of subjects including covid, censorship, monkeypox (is the 'k' silent?), covid jabs, the throttling of healthcare professionals and the dumbing down of science over the past two years.

Such was Mike Ryan's interest, the discussion took some interesting twists and turns which makes for really good listening, even if we are a little biased.

You can listen to the podcast of the 1 hour show below. If you prefer to read rather than listen, we've also included a transcript of the show below.

We hope you enjoy an engrossing discourse that's sure to be repeated.

Listen to the Podcast


Mike Ryan

One of the great things about TNT radio is the incredible lineup of special guests who can provide our listeners with facts they won't get from mainstream media.

Now we need, more than ever, in this world of perpetual pandemics, medical censorship and mandates organisations like us, TNT Radio. We spent a lot of money, have some absolutely magnificent presenters on. I love them all and they are absolutely fantastic. Our staff here are just brilliant. But they all work for the common cause.

And that's to tell the truth.

Dr Robert Verkerk is an internationally acclaimed expert in health, agriculture and environmental sustainability in Europe who has made substantial contributions to the development of more appropriate legal and scientific frameworks or the regulation of natural products used in health care.

Following his first degree in Ecology at the University of Westminster in London, he spent some 10 years in the private sector in Australia, working in the field of sustainable environmental management while simultaneously leading various environmental campaigns through his voluntary work at the Total Environment Centre in Sydney.

He returned to the UK in 1990, completed a Masters degree at the Imperial College London, and after a further period of a year in Australia, he resumed his duties, being awarded a doctorate in 1995. After just two years, his research focused particularly on bio-compatible approaches to agriculture and biocontrol of insect pests.

In 2002, he founded the Alliance for Natural Health International a pan-European, and international non-governmental organisation dedicated to promoting and protecting natural approaches to health care, as well as helping to shape the scientific and regulatory framework affecting such approaches. He’s a World Council for Health Committee Co-chair.

Dr Verkerk has authored some 60 papers in scientific journals and conference proceedings and contributes regularly to magazines and other popular media, including writing a monthly column in What Doctors Don't Tell You.

First of all, Doctor Verkerk. Thanks for joining us.

Rob Verkerk PhD

Mike, it's a real pleasure to be with you.

Mike Ryan

Now tell us about What Doctors Don't Tell You. At the moment they're not telling us much at all. Is that part of it?

Rob Verkerk PhD

Well, it depends if you're talking about people like Peter McCulloch or, mainstream doctors.

There is no doubt that that doctors have been silenced for decades. Over the last couple of years, it's got obviously a lot worse, but essentially, you're sitting there as a doctor with a licensing board and breathing down your neck if you step out of line. Essentially what what's happened is we've moved a long way from the kind of doctrine of old where the family physician had this, you very confidential therapeutic relationship with his or her patient to a system where now you basically have to follow the tram tracks and if you go out of line you risk your license, and if you risk your license, you can't put food on the table for your family.

Mike Ryan

It’s amazing because Peter is a friend of those of us here and I was talking to someone the other day. It would have been months agon ow that how Peter McCullough was one of the great, regarded as one of the great doctors in the world and almost overnight social media deemed him not a great doctor.

It's funny how things can change, but most of the changes brought upon by the misinformed and well, I won’t say low IQ although I could and it's in social media. Surely that must concern you that we have these great people around the world and they've been silenced, not on medical on their profession, or on science. It's on the emotion of that particular person writing that story.

Rob Verkerk PhD

Yes, we're living in an extraordinary time of transition and who would have thought a few years ago that?

Fact checkers and social media companies would have more control about how we should be looking after our health than a doctor that spent years and years studying it and engaging in clinical practice. But that is the world that we live in and I think what is beginning to happen is that there are people who are waking up thanks to stations like TNT. To be honest that are essentially, giving people another view.

For many people they see that something is wrong with the system that they're forced to engage with. They're not sure they can put their finger on it, but but what is now really beginning to happen is that these parallel systems are being created around us and Peter is is one of the leaders creating that.

Mike Ryan

You said before the preamble you do a column once a month, tell us about some of the columns.

What do you?

What do you look at?

What are some of the issues that concern you?

Rob Verkerk PhD

Obviously, we've been very involved on everything to do with the pandemic the last couple of years, but we really look at all the social, political and in fact scientific issues that that affect health care. One of the areas that's always interested me is the kind of model that we accept as the way of doing it, and of course there are many models that the prevailing model is this biomedical model and I wrote a column back in March 2019 that now had a lot of interest because I was talking about the fact that it was 1977, that a very well known psychologist, George Engel, proposed that the biomedical model the prevailing model, even back then in 1977, was broken, that we'd see this rash of chronic diseases that we would see, even infectious diseases, because we were essentially locked into a world where chemistry and physics were the two key sciences that that that were being used. And of course, that supporting the biopharmaceutical model as well and essentially what he's saying is that humanity is more complex than that, and he proposed this thing called the biopsychosocial model that essentially understands humans as a much more complex organism that interacts within the system and it's now more than ever. People are realising, wow, we've got to go back to this idea the ancients talked about these essential principles of bioethics. They understood that it wasn't just the body like a machine that we were this very complex Organism that that really had these three elements mind, body and spirit and essentially I think this diminishing of science, this idea that we can see everything through a very limited lens is part of the problem.

We look at solutions. Most people believe that health care solutions are about taking a Newton nature pill instead of understanding what this biophysiological, even spiritual terrain of humanity requires for good health, you isolate people. You give them a bunch of drugs you let allow them to eat junk food and the whole thing breaks down.

And that's really the system that we're dealing with at the moment, and I think there are definitely players out there that rather like this breakdown of humanity because we're at this cusp.

If you read Klaus Schwab's fourth Industrial revolution, you'll see that people like Schwab. People in the World Economic Forum are desperate to see this blurring of the biological the technological and the digital worlds and that really is the entry point for things like transhumanism.

Mike Ryan

I always think about Schwab and WF and his disciples. I think Trudeau is one of them. There's a whole bunch out here all over the place and look at these people. I think it's a bit like the Stepford wives and they got this terrible look in the eyes and it's a very scary thing.

Government loves telling these lies don't they? When it comes to your health, they're probably almost the last organisation you should believe when it comes to your health because they lie.

Rob Verkerk PhD

Yeah, the lies are everywhere and of course I think we now live in a situation where many people don't know what truth is. Ttruth, strictly speaking, is a kind of subjective concept. We all have our own truths, but there is such a cloud of information around, that people should follow that I think a lot of people are feeling disempowered and right at the heart of what's going on is actually a deliberate attempt to disempower people so that when they're disempowered.

But they become easy to control. We are dealing with a situation where by 2050 there will be, probably around about 10 billion people on the planet. So these guys sitting in their ivory towers are looking at systems by which they can control humanity and when we were younger we were looking at governments that were really interested in things like maintaining full employment, reducing inflation.

If you look at it, of late, they seem to be hell bent on destroying economies, getting people to lose their jobs because that's how they start to control people again.

Mike Ryan

It's interesting we're watching, and many have said that we're watching the West being dismantled.

What are they going to replace it with?

Rob Verkerk PhD

Well, I do, if you look at this issue of transhumanism, a lot of people are scared by the concept, because yes, it’s this, this blurring of the physical with the digital and I think essentially there are different types of people, people who don't value nature. People who really believe technology is supreme and should replace nature and so I think transhumanism is part of that goal. And of course for many of us we have a different set of values and that this is really why I think the media and social media have taken over there trying to recondition people with a set of values to allow this new agenda to take place.

Exactly where we are in terms of the public mood, it's difficult to gauge, but I think many of us are starting to feel in the industrialised world maybe there's more than 10%, maybe even 20% of people who are alive to the fact that there's a big problem with this agenda.

Mike Ryan

Talking to a producer today, which is this is not on script here, but it's a great conversation, so if you just bear with me, we were talking about governments and how they've endangered his, his family's health, and I said, what do you mean? He said, well where we live and all of Queensland all the water is fluoridated and he said so well yeah, it's good for your teeth so well. It's actually not when you clean your teeth you don't swallow the water.

The more you drink, the sicker you get. Like if you smoke a cigarette you're not going to die, but if you smoke a bunch of cigarettes, you're not going to be all that well in 20 or 30 years. And he believes the same thing with the fluoridation, and they that even the way they fluoridate the water here it's, uh, it's bordering on almost if they tweak it too much, you're going to be in a lot of trouble because it can actually do serious damage to you.

Why do governments play around so much with our lives?

When we're talking 20 years ago now, we're not talking that like something just happened yesterday. It's been going on for a long time. Isn't it that the government has a mindset. Yeah, I don't know why, but even 20 years ago you can't say that though they were looking all that much at the total control of things because technology really wasn't there.

So why do they persevere with my fluoridation? For example, I never knew the dangers of it. It is horrible for you. So why do they do that?

Rob Verkerk PhD

Yeah, the fluoridation issue is fascinating. It really sits under the same cover as the idea of childhood vaccination. This idea that Big Brother can provide a solution. Obviously, at the heart of that there are corporations that benefit whether it's the vaccine companies, whether it's the fluoridation compounds and of course, fluoride that goes into the water is basically used as a byproduct of the fertiliser industry, so it was quite a convenient way of doing.

It, of course, what we're not told is that it is a form of mass medication, and as you rightly say, to get the level of fluoride right, there is a very careful balance of the amount of fluoride that you need.

In order to optimise the way in which deposition of calcium occurs in the teeth as well as the bones you take too much and you get fluorosis and you basically stifle your pineal gland and so. And of course, if you're an athlete, you might be drinking 456 liters of water a day, and it's a crazy way of delivering a medication and people don't see it as mass medication.

Is it much in the same way that they don't really appreciate that lining up for COVID vaccines is it has been the world largest experiment.

I think this all goes back to this idea of corporatocracy this really tight liaison and it's building and building between very large corporations and governments and it's not just health care that we're looking at here.

It's also the way that that the school curricula the university curricula has been changing.

I've got six kids my oldest is in fact a medical doctor. My youngest are just about to finish school, but I've seen the way the science curricula has changed over the last 20 years and it's stunning, kids no longer learn about how nature works, they learn about biotech.

The way in which the media and might all about this, they are conditioning the public to have a certain set of values so they can bring in the change systems that they're working with. But it's really happening in all facets of our life and you, know the populace at large citizens we're at the bottom of the pyramid. There's a few people who sit at the top of it and they're attempting to control people.

Mike Ryan

Yeah, I just made fear is a great motivator for people to do what they're told because none of us want to, for example, fall off the purge, get sick and so the medical, I suppose, misinformation or disinformation adds to their fear.

Do you think we're living in a world now of perpetual pandemics because it's a great way of controlling the population, do as we say or you'll get sick and die.

Rob Verkerk PhD

Yes, we are going to live in a wealthy perpetual pandemic, so we carry on using PCR tests to to hunt down parts of the genome of particular pathogens that that are circulating. One of the things that's really happening is we keep on being told the threat is existential. It's outside of our bodies and if we look back even at the last couple of years it's very, clear that that what SARS Co V2 does is it exploits weaknesses within our terrain within our bodies. And if you look at what public health authorities have done, they have not told us that we need to go out and eat a healthy, healthy food, have a healthy lifestyle, build close relationships.

They've done absolutely the opposite, and as you rightly say, they've made people much, much more fearful about these existential threats, and in reality we live in a microbial soup and even viruses are essential to life, and we've got, probably 10 times more microbes within our body than we have human cells, so we got to get used to the fact we should be re-educating people that it's really about how we build a more resilient terrain so we can engage in in this microbial world that we live and we can become more resilient.

And of course, on top of that, we've got to manage what's happening in these biosafety labs, gain of function research is a completely separate thing. I think we're going to touch on monkey Pox. Whether we're looking at Monkey Pox or SARS CoV2 these are pathogens that have been tampered with in labs. Monkey Pox came out of a lab.

Mike Ryan


They love the word emergency because with an emergency they can do whatever they like recommend even with climate change and I say that tongue in cheek there.

The they want to ban travel, have a social credit or a carbon credit card sort of thing that it will tell you how much you used, how much you're polluting the earth, and not to travel as much.

But I see that the EU Commission has drafted their proposal that yeah, they're going to have all these huge taxes on flights and cars and stuff, but it will exclude though, business and cargo flights, so it's not as do as I do, it's do as I say, isn't it?

Rob Verkerk PhD

What they try and do is they get us to focus on one particular part of the problem and say with climate change they get us to focus on carbon emissions because they've got solutions that again support these corporatocracy green bonds and the rest of it they could equally turn around and say guys were in the middle, as David Attenborough said, of the 6th mass extinction, we've got habitat destruction all around us, environmental degradation. We can actually resolve the excess of carbon emissions simply by building agricultural soils that have a higher microbial content.

But we're not doing that because they've got other solutions, so there was, the same way that if we look at SARS CoV2. They present us with a problem and they say here is the solution, it's a vaccine. They present a problem with climate change. Here is the solution, but ultimately these are complex multifactorial problems that demand multifactorial solutions.

Mike Ryan

Somebody just handed me a piece of paper that to remind me that New Zealand are about to have a tax on farmers because apparently there's sheep, they're like 30 million of them, a couple of 1,000,000 cows or cattle. Because of the burping or passing of wind, they gotta now play pay a tax from, I think 2026 on that wind from either end of the cow or the sheep. I think we're going a bit overboard, aren't we?

Rob Verkerk PhD

Well, the bottom line is you have to look at if you're going to look at emissions from animals. There is a vendetta against red meat that is not founded. In fact, we've done a lot of analysis on this. You can have carbon neutral animal production quite easily. In fact, if you look at the at the Aberdeen Angus and Scottish beef farms or the Welsh sheep farms and I'm sure there are examples in in New Zealand and Australia as well, although less so in Australia, there are already many that are carbon neutral because essentially what most of these systems are not doing is accounting for the carbon that can be, sequestered into the into really living soils. So yes, and of course New Zealand produces compared with China. In the USA, a tiny fraction, so yeah, it is crazy.

None of it really makes sense, and most of it lacks a kind of big picture view of really what is happening on our planet at the moment.

Mike Ryan

Yeah, it's all pretty scary.

Just hang on for a second. We'll go to a quick commercial break.

My guest is Dr Robert Verkerk. You know Australia pretty well. Once upon a time we would have your back and things would be right mate, she'll be right mate. Have a Barbie sausage and a bit of bread and beer, but we became just about the pinup country for draconian laws for COVID-19. Why was that?

Rob Verkerk PhD

Well, I think some of it goes back to, uh, a long way back in history. If you look at the Spanish flu. The Aussies thought that they were going to get away with. It hit the rest of the world into in 1918 and it was really early 1919 that it arrived and the newly Federated states didn't jump on the bandwagon trying to stop it moving and there was a view that Australia could have hidden away from it and the fact that 15,000 Aussies lost their lives and that was blamed on not having tight enough restrictions on movement and then if you look at say, the development of phytosanitary regulations, all the plant stuff and the foods that come into Australia. It's had years and years of having some of the most rigorous phytosanitary regs anywhere in the world, and I think that comes from being a country that's close to tropical parts of the world, you have a lot of trading. You've got a lot of people traveling to and fro and it's essentially this idea of being a very large continent in the South Pacific has sort of bred this view that we need to lock ourselves or Aussies need to lock themselves away from the outside world. And, and that's really what we've been dealing with. We've seen it in New Zealand as well.

It does not work when you have a rapidly circulating virus. In fact, it is going to hit you at some stage but I think that that view is really deeply set in the minds of a lot of the leaders and public health officials.

Mike Ryan

Once a penal colony always a penal colony.

Rob Verkerk PhD

I was waiting for you to say that not me.

Mike Ryan

Dr Naomi Wolf was talking about the governments because somebody said oh you've come over from the left to the right and she said, well, not really.

If you look at the governments around the world up until two weeks ago we had a Conservative government. You had one in England, although you got Boris. In Canada, you got a libertarian bloke called Trudeau. Not terribly bright, but thinks he is so it didn't really matter which persuasion, whether you're left or right or whatever, they all followed the same blueprint of lockdowns, and

inside, which is really bad because you need that vitamin D. They sort of forgot what medicine or good being a good doctor or good medicine or common sense was, didn't they?

Rob Verkerk PhD

I think I think the approach has been they are wanting to move. They've been looking for excuses we saw with the financial crisis, we saw it with swine flu. They've been looking for excuses of how to insert ever more authoritarian regimes.

There's an amazing book a good friend of mine is one of the leading constitutional lawyers in the US, Jonathan Emord. His book released last year ‘The Authoritarians’ is worth a read.

Essentially, we've been moving towards this notion of an administrative state, even in places that we still call democracies. Whether you you're looking at the left of politics or the right of politics, it doesn't make much sense unless you look at it through the lens of how the power brokers are going to control that power and in essence, we're losing our democratic power and we're handing over to a bunch of pen pushers and bureaucrats that are being controlled by this corporatocracy and that's really, Peter McCullough has said it and many others have said it, it’s the Chinafication of the world.

Mike Ryan

Peter said in one of the first interviews or conversations we had with him if you're crook, if you're sick, you go to the doctor, he gives you things to make you better. They don’t send you home to go blue in the face and then get taken to hospital. We had all the there's a lot of reasons for that. One of it was because that the hospitals and doctors actually made money when the sicker you got, the more money they made so the whole thing became a profit exercise.

What’s your thoughts on public health policies and medical censorship post COVID because

you'll hear from people saying no, it's gone now. Thank God for Putin. He got rid of COVID and stuff but all this it hasn't gone all the draconian measures are just sort of bubbling away and we can expect some real surprises, can't we, down the down the track.

Rob Verkerk PhD

Absolutely at the heart of it Mike is that what we think of as health care is really just a disease management system. So doctors are not actually trained how to help people develop resilient strong bodies, and that that's viewed as something that's done in lifestyle medicine which is.

Thankfully, a growing discipline within medicine, but over the last couple of years, what we've seen is this transition to this top-down system of control, the loss of autonomy and in essence, it's a shift towards re-patterning our minds, repatterning the way that we do health care. Getting people to accept a pill, except, uh, a jab, rather than looking at the essence of what it is to be a healthy independent sovereign human being.

Mike Ryan

A lot of great things out there which I've with natural remedies. My wife and I every day we take things as pronounced quercetin and which is just magnificent and Tess Lawri suggests Black seed oil and we do that with some aspirin at times and bit of manuka honey. I gotta tell you, we feel quite, not bulletproof, but we feel like we're well preserved or we got our armor around us from Uglies, but it's just good living, isn't it, because we weren't aware of all this all these tablets and treatments and stuff, it's now like the lack of awareness is probably part of the problem isn't it.

Rob Verkerk PhD

It is. Natural medicine has been the big winner over the last couple of years.

If you look at the billions that have been spent on vaccines, what we've got is pretty leaky vaccines that wane rapidly and they have not kept in touch with the mutations in the pathogen in any way. And essentially, if you look at what has happened, we're actually just releasing today a big study that's been looking at an unvaccinated population that have subscribed to a UK based cooperative called the VAX Control Group.

We've been independently through Tess Lawrie’s organisation World Council for Health, I'm a Co-Chair of the Health and Humanity Committee. So, 4 of us, myself as a PhD and three doctors have been analysing the data and we're just releasing the results today and essentially shows that the people who've managed their health through natural medicine who relied on natural immunity have done extremely well. They've had very low rates of severe COVID. They've had very low rates of hospitalisation. They do not present a risk to the people who are vaccinated.

So, in essence, the way in which the media has been, if you like stigmatising people who've elected to use their right of refusal is part of the problem. It's a distortion of the reality.

Mike Ryan

How do we protect ourselves against dangerous public health policies?

It's all very well people saying stand up for your rights, but it’s pretty hard when you're up against the medical cartels and the government and

the law enforcement. People are people. They get nervous when they're dealing with large organisations. So how do we protect ourselves?

Rob Verkerk PhD

It still does start with standing firm, standing up for your rights. As soon as you roll over, you've lost the battle. So we do need to stand firm. Where we see clear violations of fundamental human rights and there are loads of them around, and let's understand there are thousands of court cases going on live at the moment, the mainstream media doesn't report on them, but where there are clear violations we've got to go after people in the courts. Even though the legal system is partially broken as well.

But a really important thing that people can do is educate the people around you and get them to switch off the mainstream news that's essentially conditioning people into a, a false reality. Get them to listen to radio stations like TNT, but right at the heart of it we also have to build these parallel systems. Parallel systems of healthcare parallel systems of education because we shouldn't waste too much energy fighting this huge Goliath. In fact, if we look at what's happening with the WHO Treaty at the moment, we could put all that energy into that. And essentially they can do it anyway. It's not a democratic process that we can necessarily influence, so really important that we build parallel systems.

Mike Ryan

The medical profession did rely a lot on trust. People needed to trust the doctor and it's got a fair battering, hasn't it? Because, well, you go to a doctor. The old thing you quoted, everyone says it, first, do no harm. It can't get past that. Those first do no harm, and then the doctor says have this jab, it's safe. Well, they're just lying because they don't know it's safe, even if they if they have seen no other evidence, they still don't know it's safe because it's still a bad one, of course, but it's still a trial, so these doctors, hey need to be held accountable. Are you, not surprised, but are you flabbergasted or dismayed at the reaction from doctors/GP's - ones that y that rely on the trust from the family or that individual?

Rob Verkerk PhD

It’s deeply shocking. But essentially, as I mentioned earlier, this idea of the licensing boards coming down on you, that has been a big problem, especially in Australia. But yes, this idea that that they can go out and just claim safety. It’s interesting, back in the 80s the group that I was working with in Sydney, the Total Environment Centre, we were actually responsible for stopping the safety claim around pesticides that the agrochemical industry was using in the 80s because there was no basis of safety and we need to see a similar thing happen happening particularly with experimental drugs like these new vaccines.

But if you look at the principles of biomedical ethics. They've been established for years, people like Tom Beauchamp and James Childress published them back in in 1979 and the 4 main principles, all of them are being trashed at the moment.

  • One is the respect for autonomy and we've seen a system that's actually going away from that, so that we're essentially handing autonomy to the to the institutions.
  • The other one is this principle of nonmaleficence, which is the first do no harm principle.
  • The third one is the principle of beneficence, which is the principle of, wait for it, doing good, and then the last one.
  • The principle of justice.

These are all built into widely accepted, recognised systems that exist within licensing boards, yet none of them are being followed. So, we need to re-evaluate, reframe, reimagine bioethical frameworks. And in fact this is one of the big jobs that we're doing within one of the committees within the World Council for Health. it again speaks to this idea of building parallel systems where we look back at some of these principles that are not just recent principles.

If you look at the ancient texts of Ayurveda or even traditional Chinese medicine, they're in there as well, and they're really about respect and dignity, and really valuing the therapeutic relationship and also confidentiality.

Mike Ryan

Well that went away a long time ago in Victoria, where there's an example where Doctor Mark Hobart was raided by the Victorian Government and these gentlemen came in with, with his jackets on that said official. Which is, yeah, they could have been working for the roads department, who knows.

They raided his office and took away all the confidential information, so that in itself just shows you that I think the tipping point has come and gone a long time ago and that are the whole the whole kit and caboodle the whole world is changing.

Tell us, before we get into other stuff, you would have been like this bullseye on the on the back of your shirt or jacket, because censorship and it really hasn't stopped.

When anybody that disagrees with the narrative, woo hoo, that they're going after you after that particular person or that organisation. Did you experience any of that hunting of the good doctor.

Rob Verkerk PhD

Oh yeah, there's no doubt. Through our network through the Alliance for Natural Health International we're connected with a huge number of doctors in the integrative medicine space around the world, and pretty much all of us who have stood up and looked at the science and communicated that one by one we've been challenged.

In our case it was literally within minutes of releasing, there wasn't anyone that really went public on the great reset when we went public on it and they were waiting for us. Within minutes we lost our entire YouTube channel and so it's been a vendetta ever since, but I, but I think what we're seeing is now there's this creation, we don't even want to think of it as alternative media, you're a big part of it at TNT, I think we need to call this new media that's developing ‘new media’ rather than alternative media.

And of course, we're all getting a voice again through this parallel system that's building up. Del Bigtree at the Better Way Conference a couple of weeks back, he said, I eat censorship for breakfast. When they go after me, I get a louder voice, not a soft voice. So we've got to not b knocked back. By this notion of censorship, we've just got to find different channels to communicate in.

Mike Ryan

Yeah, they can't dispute the facts, so what they do is they go after the individual. And that must be hard though, for doctors to stand up against bad health policy because they can, just look around and they see their peers are being just topped up and diced and quartered and thrown out to the cat.

Rob Verkerk PhD

What a lot of doctors are beginning to do is to say what I'm going to do is just give up, even if it's temporarily my medical license to practice as a doctor and prescribe drugs and I'm going to work as a naturopathic physician. Many doctors had to do that in order to basically first do no harm. They knew that the key things that they needed to provide were off label drugs like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, a whole bunch of vitamins like vitamin C, vitamin D at very high dose. As well as quercetin that you're taking.

If they were doing that publicly, they would have lost their licenses, so they they've given them up temporarily, and let's hope our sense is that we can pull this back in the next two or three years.

It's pretty wacky what we're living through and to every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, and the only way we're going to get some equilibrium in this is a people stand firm and doctors do their very best to practice the best form of medicine that actually people want more of. It's supply and demand and, that's already happening.

Mike Ryan

Yeah, I must think there's a bit of cloning happening. Throughout Australia we have these evil doctor evils in various bureaucracies as the chief medical officers of various States and Queensland I think has done it or just about to do it. In South Australia if you don't abide by the mandates, the individual can be fined up to $75,000 and thrown in jail for two years. I don't think it's going to, uh, I don't think = the governments are going to back down just yet. They're going to ramp things up and to and they bought this power in after their state of emergency or whatever you want to call it had had stopped so just imagine though if it hadn't have stopped and we’d all be in jail.

Rob Verkerk PhD

There is always strength in numbers. Revolutions start because lots of people come together and we we've got to understand that that we still have independence from the powers that be.

A lot of people are feeling disempowered because they see what governments are doing, what the media is communicating and all the rest of it. But we gotta actually think about our daily lives, the food that we eat, the social relationships we choose to have, how we look after our own health. And we can actually be a lot more independent than you think.

It's not a great idea to make yourself completely and utterly co-dependent on the state. We've got to develop a sense of independence.

Mike Ryan

You must have a favorite subject that you just sit home and go, oh well, I can't wait for the pandemic treaty to come into force, not. It's a pretty scary thing, isn't it?

Rob Verkerk PhD

It is. It would trash things like the rule of law. It trashes sovereignty. There is no accountability for the power brokers. All the anti-trust systems, anti-corruption systems that we thought were marks of civilised societies, all thrown to the wind. So they would be able to essentially have this never ending pandemic cycle. Yes, it is scary. It's even more scary when you look at how many UN Member states just 194 of them just signing up for it so, and that's an indication that governments will do it because there isn't now a separation between essentially the people and the power brokers. And yes, we, we've got to try and resist it. At the same time, they will attempt to carry on with it.

Mike Ryan

Yeah, they put these they enact all these things with the World Health Organization. They don't tell the citizens what they're doing and what's even more surprising you'll mention it then to your friends or your mates and stuff and you say look this WHO pandemic treaty this is what it's going to do to you and they just look at you. It's like Oh well and move on.

Again, back to what I was talking about before the apathy is that our greatest danger, do you think that we just don't care enough and oh well, we'll just move on.

Rob Verkerk PhD

You have to read built Bill Gates his new book ‘How we're going to deal with the next pandemic.’

It is very much built into this idea that that the WHO can build a public health emergency of international concern on their own. I think Monkeypox is

Mike Ryan

Moneypox, Moneypox

Rob Verkerk PhD

That's the one miss out the K. It's a soft K, but in essence it could backfire. It's interesting looking at the public mood on that. But there are people who are saying, come on this, this is not transmissible in the same way, it's mainly affecting men who have sex with men.

You've really got to ensure that you get a good coverage of those nasty pustules we keep being shown. These, African kids very severe smallpox like pustules. In reality, if you look at the clinical symptoms of monkeypox that's circulating outside of Africa, it looks pretty different.

But, if you look at the case definition that they've given, it's so broad that it can encompass things like shingles that we know people are getting more and more of as their immune systems are broken down. So and of course, a big part of it. One of the things I worry about is that they're pushing this idea of genetic surveillance the whole time, the confirmation for monkeypox is actually a genetic test. A PCR test again where they’re chasing a particular part of that genome, but every time they do that, there's more data and more people, there's more control because you'd have to get more tests, and that's really what people need to wake up to.

Mike Ryan

The CDC, can't believe how good they are, not! But one day they had that you have to wear a mask or they suggest that you wear a mask to prevent yourself from getting or passing on monkey pox. Anyway, that was rescinded too, I think within two days.

Rob Verkerk PhD

It was rescinded and again it’s an example with so many people saying what the hell as soon as they did that and they looked stupid and they had they had to pull back on it.

Mike Ryan

I'm just wondering though, because if you look at when COVID, because I recall reading about it, when I used to believe the media and I was reading about COVID and our little outbreak there and nothing much and something else and then what they do is they start just bleeding little stories and it gathers momentum like this thing rolling down a hill gets faster and faster and I'm sort of wondering whether they're trying to do the same with moneypox. Whether y you do a story here and you put it away and creates a bit of a doubt of the mind, but you feel good. Then day or two later something else happens over there and you think, well, maybe, and before it, you've got this a whole bunch of wheels rolling down the hill, gathering momentum. Government steps in and says first of all mas, we may, we need a lockdown.

Can you see something like that happening with moneypox.

 Rob Verkerk PhD

Absolutely, and I think really a lot of this centers around vaccination strategies. Essentially in 1980, the WHO declared that smallpox was over. But they've been busy making smallpox vaccines. The driver for that has been that it's always been viewed as a potential bioweapon threat.

It's funny how these bioweapons and things that go on in biosafety labs, is all part of the same story but there are now smallpox vaccines that are rolling out you. You are creating one. in Australia, that's ready to go.

They have a pretty nasty safety profile. Even the WHO says that they have been concerned about some pretty serious adverse events from these. But I think that's where we're moving. There's another threat. Don't only have your flu jab. Have your COVID jab and now have your smallpox jab.

Mike Ryan


Rob Verkerk PhD

And we're just gonna become pincushions. Yeah, and more money for the full effect.

Mike Ryan

And there'll be a sound effect like kerching, kerching.

Look, Robert Verkerk. Thank you very much for your time.

I've had a truly, uh, an amazing conversation with you. We gotta do this more often. Thank you so much for your time.

Rob Verkerk PhD

Mike, it's been great to talk to you.


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